[Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

Xavier Combelle xavier.combelle at gmail.com
Wed Oct 25 09:38:29 PDT 2017

As I understand the paper they directly created alphago zero with a 40 block

They just made a reduced 20 block setup to compare on kifu prediction
(as far as I searched in the paper, it is the only
place where they mention the 20 block setup)

They specifically mention comparing several version of their software.
with various parameter

If the number of block was an important parameter I hope they would
mention it.

Of course they are a lot of things that they try and failed and we will
not know about

But I have hard time to believe that alphago zero with a 20 block is one
of them

About the paper, there is no mention of the number of block of master:

"AlphaGo Master is the program that defeated top human players by 60–0
in January, 2017 34 .
It was previously unpublished but uses the same neural network
architecture, reinforcement
learning algorithm, and MCTS algorithm as described in this paper.
However, it uses the
same handcrafted features and rollouts as AlphaGo Lee
and training was initialised by
supervised learning from human data."

Of what I understand same network architecture imply the same number of

Le 25/10/2017 à 17:58, Xavier Combelle a écrit :
> I understand better
> Le 25/10/2017 à 04:28, Hideki Kato a écrit :
>> Are you thinking the 1st instance could reach Master level 
>> if giving more training days?
>> I don't think so.  The performance would be stopping 
>> improving at 3 days.  If not, why they built the 2nd 
>> instance?
>> Best,
>> Hideki
>> Xavier Combelle: <05c04de1-59c4-8fcd-2dd1-094faabf38a7 at gmail.com>:
>>> How is it a fair comparison if there is only 3 days of training for Zero ?
>>> Master had longer training no ? Moreover, Zero has bootstrap problem
>>> because at the opposite of Master it don't learn from expert games
>>> which means that it is likely to be weaker with little training.
>>> Le 24/10/2017 à 20:20, Hideki Kato a écrit :
>>>> David Silver told Master used 40 layers network in May. 
>>>> According to new paper, Master used the same architecture 
>>>> as Zero.  So, Master used 20 blocks ResNet.  
>>>> The first instance of Zero, 20 blocks ResNet version, is 
>>>> weaker than Master (after 3 days training).  So, with the 
>>>> same layers (a fair comparison) Zero is weaker than 
>>>> Master.
>>>> Hideki
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