[Computer-go] Having an "estimated winrate" on the AGA

Andreas Persson andreas at apgames.se
Thu Sep 1 02:45:55 PDT 2016


Gnu Go has an estimate_score command with an upper and lower bound. Not sure how good it is though.


/ Andreas
1 september 2016 10:47:48 +02:00, skrev computer-go-request at computer-go.org:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: Having an "estimated winrate" on the AGA pro game
> broadcasts (Robert Waite)
> 2. Re: KGS mixed human-and-bot tournaments (Michael Alford)
> 3. Fwd: Re: KGS mixed human-and-bot tournaments (Gonçalo)
> 4. Re: KGS mixed human-and-bot tournaments (Nick Wedd)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 18:01:25 -0700
> From: Robert Waite <<winstonwaite at gmail.com>>
> To: <computer-go at computer-go.org>
> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Having an "estimated winrate" on the AGA
> pro game	broadcasts
> Message-ID:
> <CAD1BM33SCZ8z92YB8pwS+_9_bwTwqtFLZe3StUWLB5SKHTh1MA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> If you want something quick could use any engine that supports the gtp
> command "final_score". It doesnt give win rate but will report who it
> thinks won and by how many points. GnuGo.. pachi or commercial engines
> likely all support it.. but calculation in early game can lag.. like 30s to
> 1min for gnugo for example.
> 
> On Aug 31, 2016 4:31 PM, "Jackson, Andrew" <<andrew.jackson at usgo.org>> wrote:
> 
> 
> > Ah, i forgot to put the links to example broadcasts:
> > 
> > Our recent broadcast of the Bailing cup semifinals:
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXCkkC341L8>
> > A live game from the recent US Go Congress: <https://www.youtube>.
> > com/watch?v=Z3lPUKSQU3g (commentary starts ~45 minutes in)
> > 
> > BTW, i'd like to point out that this doesn't necessarily need to be
> > stunningly strong or accurate, although a stronger engine would certainly
> > do a better job!
> > 
> > On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Jackson, Andrew <<andrew.jackson at usgo.org>>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > Hello all! Long time lurker, first time poster: I'm Andrew Jackson, i
> > > volunteer w/ the AGA in a number of capacities.
> > > 
> > > Most recently, i've been putting together live broadcasts of games --
> > > professional games from CJK, and also games from AGA events [1]
> > > 
> > > These broadcasts feature professional commentary to help amateurs
> > > understand what's going on, but the number one question we get in the chat
> > > during the broadcasts is invariably "who's winning?" I was hoping
> > > computer-go could provide some suggestions on how we might run the
> > > game-in-progress through an engine to get an 'estimated winrate' -- or
> > > better yet, a graph -- that could be overlaid in the corner of the screen.
> > > 
> > > Which brings me to the computer-go mailing list :) It seems like someone
> > > on this mailing list would probably have some good ideas about how this
> > > might be accomplished :) What do you think?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Here are some more details:
> > > 
> > > The game sgf is kept mirrored on KGS by a human transcriber w/ permission
> > > from the KBA.
> > > 
> > > The overlay for these broadcasts is already rendered as a local webserver
> > > hosting a simple html shell holding the graphics; my thought was that this
> > > server could easily make requests to another service somewhere. That
> > > service would be tracking the game and able to send back some json
> > > describing the engine's view of the game, its confidence, etc. We could
> > > then plot with d3.js right on the overlay.
> > > 
> > > The service would need to run somewhere else, as the computer streaming
> > > the game is already using all the CPU for transcoding & pushing the video.
> > > 
> > > Given general overview of the goal & constraints, I ask you:
> > > 
> > > - Does this sound plausible?
> > > - Any ideas for an engine that would be easy to hook this into?
> > > - Are bots capable of spectating games on KGS?
> > > 
> > > Thanks in advance for any help you might provide!
> > > -Andrew
> > > 
> > > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Computer-go mailing list
> > Computer-go at computer-go.org
> > <http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go>
> > 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 18:23:43 -0700
> From: Michael Alford <<malf at aracnet.com>>
> To: <computer-go at computer-go.org>
> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] KGS mixed human-and-bot tournaments
> Message-ID: <<ad96ae58-84a5-71dd-461e-f9627aba4d0d at aracnet.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> 
> Isn't this byoyomi heavily in favor of bots?
> 
> Just asking.
> 
> 
> On 8/31/16 10:24 AM, Nick Wedd wrote:
> 
> > KGS has announced that it will be running, for the first time, a
> > "mixed" tournament where both humans and bots can play on the same
> > terms. This will be held on Saturday and Sunday, September 17th/18th.
> > 
> > The tournament is in two divisions, suitable for different time zones.
> > Both are 19x19, No Handicap, Single Elimination. The time settings are
> > 30 minutes main time plus Canadian 2 minutes per 10 moves (30m + 2min
> > / 10 moves). The rounds are spaced 90 min apart, 3 rounds on the first
> > day, remaining rounds on the second day.
> > 
> > There are details at <https://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=1070>
> > 
> > <<https://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=1070>> (Asia/Europe) and
> > <https://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=1071>
> > 
> > <<https://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=1071>> (Americas). Bots may
> > enter both divisions. There are small prizes, which may be won by bots.
> > 
> > The organisers expect entrants with a wide range of strengths, and I
> > hope that these will include bots with a range of strengths. As it's
> > an Elimination tournament, weaker players are likely to be eliminated
> > on the Saturday.
> > 
> > Entrants are invited to register themselves for this tournament, using
> > the "Tournament Registration" link at the top right of the pages cited
> > above. When registering a bot, please also email me, so that I can
> > check that all bots are being operated by, or with the approval of,
> > their creators, and we do not have multiple instances of identical bots.
> > 
> > I hope all bot authors will consider entering this event.
> > 
> > Nick
> > -- 
> > Nick Wedd <maproom at gmail.com> <mailto:<maproom at gmail.com>>
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Computer-go mailing list
> > Computer-go at computer-go.org
> > <http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go>
> > 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2016 09:25:40 +0100
> From: Gonçalo <<gonmf at sapo.pt>>
> To: "[mailing" <<computer-go at computer-go.org>>
> Subject: [Computer-go] Fwd: Re: KGS mixed human-and-bot tournaments
> Message-ID: <<kw0b7qyyo4hftdfn8t6orx1v.1472718340175 at email.android.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Could you elaborate why?
> 
> Also, welcome Andrew :)
> 
> Gonçalo
> 
> 
> > > 
> > > Isn't this byoyomi heavily in favor of bots?
> > > 
> > > Just asking.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 8/31/16 10:24 AM, Nick Wedd wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > KGS has announced that it will be running, for the first time, a "mixed" tournament where both humans and bots can play on the same terms. This will be held on Saturday and Sunday, September 17th/18th.
> > > > 
> > > > The tournament is in two divisions, suitable for different time zones. Both are 19x19, No Handicap, Single Elimination. The time settings are 30 minutes main time plus Canadian 2 minutes per 10 moves (30m + 2min / 10 moves). The rounds are spaced 90 min apart, 3 rounds on the first day, remaining rounds on the second day.
> > > > 
> > > > There are details at https://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=1070 (Asia/Europe) and https://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=1071 (Americas). Bots may enter both divisions. There are small prizes, which may be won by bots.
> > > > 
> > > > The organisers expect entrants with a wide range of strengths, and I hope that these will include bots with a range of strengths. As it's an Elimination tournament, weaker players are likely to be eliminated on the Saturday.
> > > > 
> > > > Entrants are invited to register themselves for this tournament, using the "Tournament Registration" link at the top right of the pages cited above. When registering a bot, please also email me, so that I can check that all bots are being operated by, or with the approval of, their creators, and we do not have multiple instances of identical bots.
> > > > 
> > > > I hope all bot authors will consider entering this event.
> > > > 
> > > > Nick
> > > > -- 
> > > > Nick Wedd <maproom at gmail.com>
> > > > 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 09:50:31 +0100
> From: Nick Wedd <<maproom at gmail.com>>
> To: <computer-go at computer-go.org>
> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] KGS mixed human-and-bot tournaments
> Message-ID:
> <CAEVtG+NA7o2UBy6xzGUaifLKWY9YceA5n5wbuQM3PozG7OedmA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> On 1 September 2016 at 02:23, Michael Alford <<malf at aracnet.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> > Isn't this byoyomi heavily in favor of bots?
> > 
> > Just asking.
> > 
> Not that I'm aware of (and it's not byo-yomi, it's Canadian overtime). What
> form of overtime do you think would be less favourable to bots?
> 
> Nick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > On 8/31/16 10:24 AM, Nick Wedd wrote:
> > 
> > KGS has announced that it will be running, for the first time, a "mixed"
> > tournament where both humans and bots can play on the same terms. This
> > will be held on Saturday and Sunday, September 17th/18th.
> > 
> > The tournament is in two divisions, suitable for different time zones.
> > Both are 19x19, No Handicap, Single Elimination. The time settings are 30
> > minutes main time plus Canadian 2 minutes per 10 moves (30m + 2min / 10
> > moves). The rounds are spaced 90 min apart, 3 rounds on the first day,
> > remaining rounds on the second day.
> > 
> > There are details at <https://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=1070>
> > (Asia/Europe) and <https://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=1071>
> > (Americas). Bots may enter both divisions. There are small prizes, which
> > may be won by bots.
> > 
> > The organisers expect entrants with a wide range of strengths, and I hope
> > that these will include bots with a range of strengths. As it's an
> > Elimination tournament, weaker players are likely to be eliminated on the
> > Saturday.
> > 
> > Entrants are invited to register themselves for this tournament, using the
> > "Tournament Registration" link at the top right of the pages cited above.
> > When registering a bot, please also email me, so that I can check that all
> > bots are being operated by, or with the approval of, their creators, and we
> > do not have multiple instances of identical bots.
> > 
> > I hope all bot authors will consider entering this event.
> > 
> > Nick
> > --
> > Nick Wedd <maproom at gmail.com>
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Computer-go mailing listComputer-go at computer-go.orghttp://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Computer-go mailing list
> > Computer-go at computer-go.org
> > <http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go>
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nick Wedd <maproom at gmail.com>
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