[Computer-go] Computer-go Digest, Vol 82, Issue 2

Pawel Koziol pp.koziol at gmail.com
Sat Nov 5 08:15:17 PDT 2016


Authors of chess program Stockfish gathered massive statistics about
probability that on reaching certain move number game is still undecided
(meaning not too larhe score difference). From that data they derived a
table of multipliers used to adjust time per move calculated by their usual
formula. Later on, they approximated the table by using some other formula.

2016-11-05 13:00 GMT+01:00 <computer-go-request at computer-go.org>:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Time policy (Álvaro Begué)
>    2. Re: Time Policy (Hendrik Baier)
>    3. Re: Time policy (valkyria at phmp.se)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 08:59:11 -0400
> From: Álvaro Begué <alvaro.begue at gmail.com>
> To: computer-go <computer-go at computer-go.org>
> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Time policy
> Message-ID:
>         <CAF8dVMUrBNnjEm=4ZkSTzLkSrx0fQ5LXAic4zgMPWWwrbG-i0g at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Start by computing a "normal" amount of time to spend, using the kinds of
> rules described by others in this thread.
>
> Since you are using MCTS, you may want to experiment with spending more
> time if the move with the best score is not the one that has been explored
> the most, since that probably signals an unclear situation.
>
> You can save a bit of time in obvious moves once you realize that the other
> moves cannot catch up in the normal time allocated for this move.
>
> Álvaro.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 5:02 AM, Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira <gonmf at sapo.pt>
> wrote:
>
> > I similarly use C x (T / E) in matilda, with
> > C = 1.24
> > T = time left on current period (absolute or byo yomi)
> > E = argmax(estimate of game length divided by two ; 19) or byo yomi
> stones
> > remaining
> >
> > The length estimate ir around 2/3 of the board points.
> >
> > It lacks the decision to expend a byo yomi period in more difficult
> > positions.
> >
> > Gonçalo Ferreira
> > Em 04/11/2016 08:40, Urban Hafner <contact at urbanhafner.com> escreveu:
> >
> > I think there are some short papers about it out there. But I would
> > suggest looking at the source code of existing bots like michi or pachi.
> > What I use in my bot is really simple. I use the following formula:
> >
> > time for next move = remaining time / (C * max(vacant points, M))
> >
> > Where C is some constant you need to figure out (I use 0.5 right now),
> > “vacant points” is the number of empty intersections on the board and M
> is
> > a lower limit (I currently use 24) so that you don’t use up too much time
> > that you might need when a capture happens.
> >
> > It has worked well enough so far that I haven’t looked at more intricate
> > algorithms. Oh, and once I hit byo-yomi time I just divide the time into
> > equal parts by the number of stones for the byo-yomi period.
> >
> > Urban
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto <gcp at sjeng.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > On 04-11-16 04:45, Billy White wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Our team is working on a computer go system mainly followed alphago.
> > > We try to add time policy to our system but cannot find something
> > > useful.
> > >
> > > I am wondering whether there are some useful material?
> >
> > Take a large games database, and construct a table of expected number of
> > moves remaining based on the current move of the game.
> >
> > Divide total amount of time left by the output of that table.
> >
> > Test if biasing it to think slightly longer early on helps playing
> > strength.
> >
> > If there is byo-yomi time. the required extra thinking time generally
> > flows logically from the byo-yomi timecontrol and the above.
> >
> > --
> > GCP
> > _______________________________________________
> > Computer-go mailing list
> > Computer-go at computer-go.org
> > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Blog: http://bettong.net/
> > Twitter: https://twitter.com/ujh
> > Homepage: http://www.urbanhafner.com/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Computer-go mailing list
> > Computer-go at computer-go.org
> > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 14:30:40 +0100
> From: Hendrik Baier <hendrik.baier at gmail.com>
> To: computer-go at computer-go.org
> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Time Policy
> Message-ID:
>         <CAEc=CNaUx0J9ZTZEn_ORVm5t6dLN_9ZEfOKYZTUKDqN12n6tow at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi,
>
> you might want to have a look at our paper on time management for MCTS:
> https://dke.maastrichtuniversity.nl/m.winands/documents/time_
> management_for_monte_carlo_tree_search.pdf
> We used Go in the beginning and then also generalized to some other
> games; the most successful strategy was quite a lot more effective
> than only looking at the expected remaining number of moves.
> Byo-yomi is not taken into account yet though.
>
> Hope it helps,
> Hendrik
>
>
>
> 2016-11-04 13:00 GMT+01:00  <computer-go-request at computer-go.org>:
> > Send Computer-go mailing list submissions to
> >         computer-go at computer-go.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >         http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >         computer-go-request at computer-go.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >         computer-go-owner at computer-go.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Computer-go digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Time policy (Billy White)
> >    2. Re: Time policy (Gian-Carlo Pascutto)
> >    3. Re: Time policy (Urban Hafner)
> >    4. Re: Time policy (Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 11:45:56 +0800
> > From: Billy White <bywbilly at gmail.com>
> > To: computer-go at computer-go.org
> > Subject: [Computer-go] Time policy
> > Message-ID: <50DC71C0-311E-4967-B97F-2980E5366C48 at gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Our team is working on a computer go system mainly followed alphago. We
> try to add time policy to our system but cannot find something useful.
> >
> > I am wondering whether there are some useful material?
> >
> > Thanks (:
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 09:00:58 +0100
> > From: Gian-Carlo Pascutto <gcp at sjeng.org>
> > To: computer-go at computer-go.org
> > Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Time policy
> > Message-ID: <ef84c1ca-a6c7-03d1-ba53-f151796d3683 at sjeng.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > On 04-11-16 04:45, Billy White wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Our team is working on a computer go system mainly followed alphago.
> >> We try to add time policy to our system but cannot find something
> >> useful.
> >>
> >> I am wondering whether there are some useful material?
> >
> > Take a large games database, and construct a table of expected number of
> > moves remaining based on the current move of the game.
> >
> > Divide total amount of time left by the output of that table.
> >
> > Test if biasing it to think slightly longer early on helps playing
> strength.
> >
> > If there is byo-yomi time. the required extra thinking time generally
> > flows logically from the byo-yomi timecontrol and the above.
> >
> > --
> > GCP
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 09:40:41 +0100
> > From: Urban Hafner <contact at urbanhafner.com>
> > To: "computer-go at computer-go.org" <computer-go at computer-go.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Time policy
> > Message-ID:
> >         <CAHmXpNnzFeTofTo=+ASg3QLPBomtw+LkUAYk3NtUM+6BHbUyxw at mail.
> gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > I think there are some short papers about it out there. But I would
> suggest
> > looking at the source code of existing bots like michi or pachi. What I
> use
> > in my bot is really simple. I use the following formula:
> >
> > time for next move = remaining time / (C * max(vacant points, M))
> >
> > Where C is some constant you need to figure out (I use 0.5 right now),
> > “vacant points” is the number of empty intersections on the board and M
> is
> > a lower limit (I currently use 24) so that you don’t use up too much time
> > that you might need when a capture happens.
> >
> > It has worked well enough so far that I haven’t looked at more intricate
> > algorithms. Oh, and once I hit byo-yomi time I just divide the time into
> > equal parts by the number of stones for the byo-yomi period.
> >
> > Urban
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto <gcp at sjeng.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 04-11-16 04:45, Billy White wrote:
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > Our team is working on a computer go system mainly followed alphago.
> >> > We try to add time policy to our system but cannot find something
> >> > useful.
> >> >
> >> > I am wondering whether there are some useful material?
> >>
> >> Take a large games database, and construct a table of expected number of
> >> moves remaining based on the current move of the game.
> >>
> >> Divide total amount of time left by the output of that table.
> >>
> >> Test if biasing it to think slightly longer early on helps playing
> >> strength.
> >>
> >> If there is byo-yomi time. the required extra thinking time generally
> >> flows logically from the byo-yomi timecontrol and the above.
> >>
> >> --
> >> GCP
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Computer-go mailing list
> >> Computer-go at computer-go.org
> >> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Blog: http://bettong.net/
> > Twitter: https://twitter.com/ujh
> > Homepage: http://www.urbanhafner.com/
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/
> attachments/20161104/ecc4cfc8/attachment-0001.html>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2016 09:02:18 +0000
> > From: Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira <gonmf at sapo.pt>
> > To: "[mailing" <computer-go at computer-go.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Time policy
> > Message-ID: <66qylsywmiiciuvopopwb61c.1478250138260 at email.android.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > I similarly use C x (T / E) in matilda, with
> > C = 1.24
> > T = time left on current period (absolute or byo yomi)
> > E = argmax(estimate of game length divided by two ; 19) or byo yomi
> stones remaining
> >
> > The length estimate ir around 2/3 of the board points.
> >
> > It lacks the decision to expend a byo yomi period in more difficult
> positions.
> >
> >
> > Gonçalo FerreiraEm 04/11/2016 08:40, Urban Hafner <
> contact at urbanhafner.com> escreveu:
> >>
> >> I think there are some short papers about it out there. But I would
> suggest looking at the source code of existing bots like michi or pachi.
> What I use in my bot is really simple. I use the following formula:
> >>
> >> time for next move = remaining time / (C * max(vacant points, M))
> >>
> >> Where C is some constant you need to figure out (I use 0.5 right now),
> “vacant points” is the number of empty intersections on the board and M is
> a lower limit (I currently use 24) so that you don’t use up too much time
> that you might need when a capture happens.
> >>
> >> It has worked well enough so far that I haven’t looked at more
> intricate algorithms. Oh, and once I hit byo-yomi time I just divide the
> time into equal parts by the number of stones for the byo-yomi period.
> >>
> >> Urban
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto <gcp at sjeng.org>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 04-11-16 04:45, Billy White wrote:
> >>> > Hi,
> >>> >
> >>> > Our team is working on a computer go system mainly followed alphago.
> >>> > We try to add time policy to our system but cannot find something
> >>> > useful.
> >>> >
> >>> > I am wondering whether there are some useful material?
> >>>
> >>> Take a large games database, and construct a table of expected number
> of
> >>> moves remaining based on the current move of the game.
> >>>
> >>> Divide total amount of time left by the output of that table.
> >>>
> >>> Test if biasing it to think slightly longer early on helps playing
> strength.
> >>>
> >>> If there is byo-yomi time. the required extra thinking time generally
> >>> flows logically from the byo-yomi timecontrol and the above.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> GCP
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Computer-go mailing list
> >>> Computer-go at computer-go.org
> >>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Blog: http://bettong.net/
> >> Twitter: https://twitter.com/ujh
> >> Homepage: http://www.urbanhafner.com/
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Computer-go mailing list
> > Computer-go at computer-go.org
> > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of Computer-go Digest, Vol 82, Issue 1
> > ******************************************
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2016 15:25:15 +0100
> From: valkyria at phmp.se
> To: computer-go at computer-go.org
> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Time policy
> Message-ID: <d15aa716a36f872a72eb4c6032468452 at phmp.se>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Just one additional thing. If you plan to play online (CGOS) you need
> have a buffer for lag.
>
> That is if the opponent plays on until the board is filled, you might
> end up playing another 100 moves. Even if your program responds locally
> in 0.0001 seconds the lag of systems out of your control might quickly
> make you spend several seconds time extra.
>
> best
> Magnus
>
>
> On 2016-11-04 04:45, Billy White wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Our team is working on a computer go system mainly followed alphago.
> > We try to add time policy to our system but cannot find something
> > useful.
> >
> > I am wondering whether there are some useful material?
> >
> > Thanks (:
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Computer-go mailing list
> > Computer-go at computer-go.org
> > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go at computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Computer-go Digest, Vol 82, Issue 2
> ******************************************
>
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