[Computer-go] How many probes down the tree are necessary for a "good" bot?

Ben Ellis ben.ellis at softweyr.co.uk
Fri Nov 15 02:48:18 PST 2013


How do you know a move is truly bad? There are almost always exceptions.

Or is it a case you can mostly afford to ignore low ranked moves at the
cost of the occasional lost game?


On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Erik van der Werf <
erikvanderwerf at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Darren Cook <darren at dcook.org> wrote:
> >>> ... I'm going by the "Measuring program strength" thread (Aug
> >>> 3013) where people are getting 50% against GnuGo with 1K to 10K
> playouts.)
> >>
> >> Actually, in that thread Hiroshi was saying he only needs 350
> >> playouts, and Detlef was at 700. So it seems you're off by roughly a
> >> factor 10.
> >
> > Yes, I was surprised just how heavy the Aya (and Zen) playouts must be.
> > We've almost come full loop, and soon the programs will be traditional
> > computer go programs doing a single playout ;-)
>
> You and Peter seem to focus quite a bit on the 'heavy' playouts while
> it really isn't so much about that. The reason why strong programs
> have to consider very few moves is knowledge applied in the tree
> (selection phase). Simply stated, if you know a move is bad then you
> don't have to run simulations on it.
>
>
> > It is a shame the developer's skill is all dead knowledge (not open
> > source, no papers). :-(
>
> The developers aren't dead, so the knowledge isn't dead. Further, I
> think most (if not all) of the required knowledge is already 'out
> there'; you just need the skills to put things together in the right
> way (and figure out which things don't work -- the typical academic
> paper won't tell you that).
>
> Erik
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