[Computer-go] ladder

Chun Sun sunchun79 at gmail.com
Tue May 14 09:31:41 PDT 2013


must be my misunderstanding... My interpretation is just the opposite:
ladders are not grown in the tree; they are part of the play-outs on the
leafs (default policy).

Need experts for further explanations :)


On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:50 AM, Don Dailey <dailey.don at gmail.com> wrote:

> I was curious about this myself.   I am so heavily involved in computer
> chess that I'm having trouble keeping up with Go.     But I am amazed at
> how strong the 19x19 go programs when I know that ladders are a big part of
> go and that they are not easily dealt with in playouts.
>
> So if I understand this correctly,  you do significant analysis in the
> tree portion of MFGO but not in the playouts?    Is that pretty typical of
> the best programs?
>
> Don
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:41 AM, David Fotland <fotland at smart-games.com>wrote:
>
>> I’m not sure I understand exactly what you are asking, but I think
>> neither is true. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Many MCTS programs read ladders as part of move generation or bias.  For
>> example ladder status may be part of the pattern data used for move bias in
>> the UCT tree.  During play outs, some programs use ladder status to select
>> the move to play.  For example a local response to the last move might be
>> “If the last move put a stone in atari, play in the liberty of the stone in
>> atari, provided it is not captured in a ladder”.   Many Faces uses ladder
>> status in these ways.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I don’t think a program should play out the ladder in the play out, since
>> half the moves are very bad.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> David****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* computer-go-bounces at dvandva.org [mailto:
>> computer-go-bounces at dvandva.org] *On Behalf Of *Chun Sun
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 14, 2013 7:22 AM
>> *To:* computer-go at dvandva.org
>> *Subject:* [Computer-go] ladder****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Hi... do MCTS programs usually put a specific ladder branch, or this
>> branch should be automatically generated given the right implementation?
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> This question has been hoovering in my head for a while and I wanted to
>> take the shortcut to ask here :)****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Thanks,****
>>
>> Chun****
>>
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>
>
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