[Computer-go] algorithm quality assessment

Ray Tayek rtayek at ca.rr.com
Wed Jun 12 16:23:52 PDT 2013


At 01:06 PM 6/12/2013, you wrote:
>Sure. It's open chinese poker: 
><http://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-rules-chinese-poker>http://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-rules-chinese-poker

this has only about 72000 possibilities, seems like you could solve it.

thanks


>Среда, 12 июня 2013, 20:57 +01:00 от 
>Nick Wedd <nick at maproom.co.uk>:
>On 12/06/2013 20:33, Oleg Barmin wrote:
> > > For quality assessment, play many games against one or more reference
> > opponents.
> > It's difficult to assament algorithm with a game against humans. The
> > game is young and there are no recognized masters at the moment. So it's
> > very hard to find human-opponent with a really good game skills.
> >
> > > With card games you can get some serious intransitivity, rocks,
> > paper, scissors type of stuff.
> > The aim of this game is to max your scores. Each turn you need to select
> > one of three choices. Each choice has an expectation value of your
> > scores. Optimal strategy here is to select a choice with max expectation
> > value. But it will take a years to calculate an expectation value at the
> > start of the game. So the game has no such intransitivity as rocks,
> > paper, scissors.
> > At the last turns we can make a complete choice enumeration and
> > calculate an exact scores expectation value ( does go algorithms use the
> > same technique? ) . It's not the way for the first half of the game. But
> > the first half is more important.
>
>Can you give a link to the rules of this game? Or even just tell us its
>name?
>
>Nick
>
> >
> > Oleg
> >
> >
> > Среда, 12 июня 2013, 14:24 -04:00 
> от Don Dailey 
> <<https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=dailey.don@gmail.com>dailey.don at gmail.com>:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:30 AM, David Fotland
> > 
> <<https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=fotland@smart%2dgames.com>fotland at smart-games.com
> > <sentmsg?mailto=mailto%3afotland at smart%2dgames.com>> wrote:
> >
> > For quality assessment, play many games against one or more
> > reference opponents.
> >
> >
> > Especially for a game that is not a game of perfect information such
> > as go or chess. With card games you can get some serious
> > intransitivity, rocks, paper, scissors type of stuff.
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> > ____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > David____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > 
> *From:<https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=%2acomputer%2dgo%2dbounces@dvandva.org>*computer-go-bounces at dvandva.org
> > 
> <<https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=sentmsg%3fmailto%3dmailto%253acomputer%252dgo%252dbounces@dvandva.org>sentmsg?mailto=mailto%3acomputer%2dgo%2dbounces at dvandva.org>
> > 
> [mailto:<https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=computer%2dgo%2dbounces@dvandva.org>computer-go-bounces at dvandva.org
> > 
> <<https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=sentmsg%3fmailto%3dmailto%253acomputer%252dgo%252dbounces@dvandva.org>sentmsg?mailto=mailto%3acomputer%2dgo%2dbounces at dvandva.org>]
> > *On Behalf Of *Oleg Barmin
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 12, 2013 8:02 AM
> > *To:* 
> <https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=computer%2dgo@dvandva.org>computer-go at dvandva.org
> > 
> <<https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=sentmsg%3fmailto%3dmailto%253acomputer%252dgo@dvandva.org>sentmsg?mailto=mailto%3acomputer%2dgo at dvandva.org>
> > *Subject:* [Computer-go] algorithm quality assessment____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > Hi, everybody,____
> >
> > I am working at the development of a cards game algorithm using
> > MCTS. Technically, the game model is expect minmax tree search,
> > where direct search takes up too much time, that is why I
> > decided to use MCTS.____
> >
> > The issue of using MCST, like any other approximation algorithm
> > is its quality assessment. I am developing an algorithm for a
> > game where no recognized masters exist. How do you think, guys,
> > if for instance Go (or Amazons) provided no way to assess an
> > algorithm playing with professional gamers (or other programs),
> > how would you assets its quality?____
> >
> > My second question: I have not yet learned Go in and out,
> > however in my opinion, any search of a next step should identify
> > a number of options with similar or even the same assessment.
> > How do you resolve this issue?____
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Oleg Barmin.____
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Computer-go mailing list
> > 
> <https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=Computer%2dgo@dvandva.org>Computer-go at dvandva.org
> > 
> <<https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=sentmsg%3fmailto%3dmailto%253aComputer%252dgo@dvandva.org>sentmsg?mailto=mailto%3aComputer%2dgo at dvandva.org>
> > 
> <http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go>http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Oleg Barmin.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Computer-go mailing list
> > 
> <https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=Computer%2dgo@dvandva.org>Computer-go at dvandva.org
> > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> >
>
>
>--
>Nick Wedd
><https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=nick@maproom.co.uk>nick at maproom.co.uk
>_______________________________________________
>Computer-go mailing list
><https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=Computer%2dgo@dvandva.org>Computer-go at dvandva.org
>http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>
>
>
>Best regards,
>Oleg Barmin.
>_______________________________________________
>Computer-go mailing list
>Computer-go at dvandva.org
>http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

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