# [Computer-go] algorithm quality assessment

Nick Wedd nick at maproom.co.uk
Wed Jun 12 14:56:32 PDT 2013

```On 12/06/2013 21:06, Oleg Barmin wrote:
> Sure. It's open chinese poker:
> http://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-rules-chinese-poker

Thank you.  Also here:
http://www.pagat.com/partition/pusoy.html#openface

Nick

>
>
> Среда, 12 июня 2013, 20:57 +01:00 от Nick Wedd <nick at maproom.co.uk>:
>
>     On 12/06/2013 20:33, Oleg Barmin wrote:
>      > > For quality assessment, play many games against one or more
>     reference
>      > opponents.
>      > It's difficult to assament algorithm with a game against humans. The
>      > game is young and there are no recognized masters at the moment.
>     So it's
>      > very hard to find human-opponent with a really good game skills.
>      >
>      > > With card games you can get some serious intransitivity, rocks,
>      > paper, scissors type of stuff.
>      > The aim of this game is to max your scores. Each turn you need to
>     select
>      > one of three choices. Each choice has an expectation value of your
>      > scores. Optimal strategy here is to select a choice with max
>     expectation
>      > value. But it will take a years to calculate an expectation value
>     at the
>      > start of the game. So the game has no such intransitivity as rocks,
>      > paper, scissors.
>      > At the last turns we can make a complete choice enumeration and
>      > calculate an exact scores expectation value ( does go algorithms
>     use the
>      > same technique? ) . It's not the way for the first half of the
>     game. But
>      > the first half is more important.
>
>     Can you give a link to the rules of this game? Or even just tell us its
>     name?
>
>     Nick
>
>      >
>      > Oleg
>      >
>      >
>      > Среда, 12 июня 2013, 14:24 -04:00 от Don Dailey
>     <dailey.don at gmail.com <sentmsg?compose&To=dailey.don at gmail.com>>:
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:30 AM, David Fotland
>      > <fotland at smart-games.com
>     <sentmsg?compose&To=fotland at smart%2dgames.com>
>      > <sentmsg?mailto=mailto%3afotland at smart%2dgames.com>> wrote:
>      >
>      > For quality assessment, play many games against one or more
>      > reference opponents.
>      >
>      >
>      > Especially for a game that is not a game of perfect information such
>      > as go or chess. With card games you can get some serious
>      > intransitivity, rocks, paper, scissors type of stuff.
>      >
>      > Don
>      >
>      >
>      > ____
>      >
>      > __ __
>      >
>      > David____
>      >
>      > __ __
>      >
>      > *From:*computer-go-bounces at dvandva.org
>     <sentmsg?compose&To=%2acomputer%2dgo%2dbounces at dvandva.org>
>      > <sentmsg?mailto=mailto%3acomputer%2dgo%2dbounces at dvandva.org
>     <sentmsg?compose&To=sentmsg%3fmailto%3dmailto%253acomputer%252dgo%252dbounces at dvandva.org>>
>      > [mailto:computer-go-bounces at dvandva.org
>     <sentmsg?compose&To=computer%2dgo%2dbounces at dvandva.org>
>      > <sentmsg?mailto=mailto%3acomputer%2dgo%2dbounces at dvandva.org
>     <sentmsg?compose&To=sentmsg%3fmailto%3dmailto%253acomputer%252dgo%252dbounces at dvandva.org>>]
>      > *On Behalf Of *Oleg Barmin
>      > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 12, 2013 8:02 AM
>      > *To:* computer-go at dvandva.org
>     <sentmsg?compose&To=computer%2dgo at dvandva.org>
>      > <sentmsg?mailto=mailto%3acomputer%2dgo at dvandva.org
>     <sentmsg?compose&To=sentmsg%3fmailto%3dmailto%253acomputer%252dgo at dvandva.org>>
>      > *Subject:* [Computer-go] algorithm quality assessment____
>      >
>      > __ __
>      >
>      > Hi, everybody,____
>      >
>      > I am working at the development of a cards game algorithm using
>      > MCTS. Technically, the game model is expect minmax tree search,
>      > where direct search takes up too much time, that is why I
>      > decided to use MCTS.____
>      >
>      > The issue of using MCST, like any other approximation algorithm
>      > is its quality assessment. I am developing an algorithm for a
>      > game where no recognized masters exist. How do you think, guys,
>      > if for instance Go (or Amazons) provided no way to assess an
>      > algorithm playing with professional gamers (or other programs),
>      > how would you assets its quality?____
>      >
>      > My second question: I have not yet learned Go in and out,
>      > however in my opinion, any search of a next step should identify
>      > a number of options with similar or even the same assessment.
>      > How do you resolve this issue?____
>      >
>      >
>      > Best regards,
>      > Oleg Barmin.____
>      >
>      >
>      > _______________________________________________
>      > Computer-go mailing list
>      > Computer-go at dvandva.org
>     <sentmsg?compose&To=Computer%2dgo at dvandva.org>
>      > <sentmsg?mailto=mailto%3aComputer%2dgo at dvandva.org
>     <sentmsg?compose&To=sentmsg%3fmailto%3dmailto%253aComputer%252dgo at dvandva.org>>
>      > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > Best regards,
>      > Oleg Barmin.
>      >
>      >
>      > _______________________________________________
>      > Computer-go mailing list
>      > Computer-go at dvandva.org
>     <sentmsg?compose&To=Computer%2dgo at dvandva.org>
>      > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>      >
>
>
>     --
>     Nick Wedd
>     nick at maproom.co.uk <sentmsg?compose&To=nick at maproom.co.uk>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Computer-go mailing list
>     Computer-go at dvandva.org <sentmsg?compose&To=Computer%2dgo at dvandva.org>
>     http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>
>
>
> Best regards,
> Oleg Barmin.

--
Nick Wedd
nick at maproom.co.uk

```