[Computer-go] An unusual seki

Nick Wedd nick at maproom.co.uk
Sun Aug 19 11:47:42 PDT 2012


On 19/08/2012 18:04, Erik van der Werf wrote:
> I saw Nick's email, but booting is not the same as banning. An actual
> ban is an implicit acknowledgement of a flaw in the kgs scoring
> protocol. Just thought it might be interesting to hear some details
> (especially if and how it was fixed).
>
> Anyway, all this seems rather strange. Bots only need one resumption.
> After that all remaining stones are assumed to be alive by rule, so
> there's no need to query the bot again for anything. The game can simply
> end without any need for an admin to act. One could make this a bit more
> flexible by increasing the max number of resumptions, but the principle
> remains the same; there really shouldn't be a need for an admin to get
> involved to get a game to end.

I don't have access to exactly what happened.  It isn't preserved in the 
SGF record.  And with regard to the recent thread on a possible 
replacement for SGF, this is the new feature that I would most value: a 
way of preserving in the game record what claims of status the two 
players have made.

A (slightly) better way for KGS to have dealt with this problem would 
have been for the admin to have kicked the misbehaving bot, rather than 
booting it.  A "kick" is instantaneous: a kicked user can reconnect 
immediately, though in my experience it usually takes bots exactly five 
minutes, a delay that may be intrinsic to the kgsGtp client.  A booted 
user, however, cannot reconnect until the duration of the boot, as 
specified by the admin, has expired.  The minimum duration, as applied 
in this case, is one hour.

However, the admin involved in this incident was a plain, or 
"silver-star", admin.  He had the power to boot, but not to kick.  Only 
a "senior" or "gold-star" admin can administer a kick.  The reasons for 
this distinction are lost in the mists of KGS history.

Nick




>
> Erik
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Michael Williams
> <michaelwilliams75 at gmail.com <mailto:michaelwilliams75 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     See original email from Nick:
>
>     "Yesterday, a KGS game between Blubbel 3d and AyaBot4 2k, SGF file
>     below, ended with an unusual kind of seki.  AyaBot4 marked its
>     opponent's stones in the seki as dead, and was eventually booted
>     by an admin for mis-marking stones (as a way of getting the game
>     to end).  As all eleven AyaBots use the same IP address, they all
>     got booted - and an hour later, all simultaneously tried to log in
>     again."
>
>
>     On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Erik van der Werf
>     <erikvanderwerf at gmail.com <mailto:erikvanderwerf at gmail.com>> wrote:
>      > On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 1:06 AM, Hiroshi Yamashita
>     <yss at bd.mbn.or.jp <mailto:yss at bd.mbn.or.jp>> wrote:
>      >>
>      >> I understood why I and bots were banned for a while.
>      >
>      >
>      > Oh, interesting, did this lead to a kgs ban? Why exactly was that?
>      >
>      > Erik
>      >
>      >
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-- 
Nick Wedd
nick at maproom.co.uk



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