[Computer-go] a pro game which is computer-unreadable

Thomas Wolf twolf at brocku.ca
Wed Nov 30 19:23:39 PST 2011

This lader together with a hand full of others from professional games are
discussed in my book
Mastering Ladders, Richmond, VA: Slate & Shell, 2008. ISBN 1-932001-40-9
On the accompanying CD there are about 150 more professional games with
longer ladders, many intentionally lost because this gives very heavy sente
moves that may secure more territory than the ladder loses.


On Wed, 30 Nov 2011, Olivier Teytaud wrote:

> Hi;
> sorry for taking some of your time with non-technical long-term AI/GO
> dreaming,
> but if sometimes you find Go fascinating you might like the video below :-)
> As many of you I guess, I've spent time trying to design some sort of
> learning in MCTS, so that
> monte-carlo simulations would be "adaptive" to the current situation. This
> idea looks like a very
> natural solution to the problems we have for reaching human top-level.
> I've met this incredible game; I'm not a Go player, but like many
> not-so-strong players at first view the moves by black
> look like a big mistake (misunderstood ladder):
> In fact, it's (as far as I see...) a very clever idea by black (Lee Sedol,
> pro player), in spite of the fact that it's a failed ladder.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beic62XoHnM
> We tried various things for having machine learning in MCTS:
>    - Contextual Monte-Carlo for online learning simulations:
> http://hal.inria.fr/inria-00456422/
>    - poolRave (using RAVE values in simulations):
> http://hal.inria.fr/inria-00485555/
>    - Bernstein Races for offline learning patterns
> http://hal.inria.fr/inria-00622150/
>     (a synthesis of these papers in http://hal.inria.fr/inria-00544758/ )
> and many of you have published related stuff;
> but when a computer will be able to understand a situation as the game
> above, it will be very impressive to me :-)
> Go looks like a combination between feeling and mathematical reasoning. One
> day the people of the Go-sect will convince
> me that this game has something really special :-)
> In particular, my feeling is that a 10kyu can not play this pro game, but a
> 10-kyu can understand a posteriori. It's difficult the discuss
> the possibility for a computer to understand a posteriori, but with a little
> bit of provocation from this point of view computers
> are not yet 10-key  :-)
> Best regards,
> Olivier

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