[Computer-go] on MixBot CrazyStone + Zen
3-Hirn-Verlag at gmx.de
Fri Apr 29 19:00:41 PDT 2011
> I would be more interested to see three strong programs voting for
> moves and no human intervention. Perhaps add Patchi to the mix.
I did some work on "simple" voting systems in computer chess around
1990. The main result was: majority voting gives a SMALL improvement
over the (equally strong) bots - indeed, much smaller than 200 rating
points (the improvement was more in the range of 30-50 points).
One problem in such systems is the synchronization of timing: you lose
playing strength, when you brutally stop all three bots in a predefined
Much later (around 2004-2007), Helmut Weigel made very succesful
experiments with three chess bots who together generated a small
selective tree before deciding on a move. He called it Gecko.
Gecko's crisis came when Rybka - being clearly stronger than all
other bots in those days - entered the scene. Helmut did not find a
good way to combine one very strong and two normally strong bots.
PS. Majority voting (with 3 bots) in 19x19 go might be problematic
as you will have many situations with three different proposals. So,
you would need clever tie-breaking.
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 4:31 PM, "Ingo Althöfer"
> <3-Hirn-Verlag at gmx.de>wrote:
> > Hello,
> > now I found time to read several sgf protocols
> > of KGS games played by BonoBot.
> > Here is part of the chat from a game between
> > BonoBot and Zen, which I find very interesting.
> > PW[Zen19B]PB[bonobot] DT[2011-04-23]
> > ************ Chat on *****************
> > ajahuang]: they are strong at different aspects
> > [ajahuang]: Zen features more fighting and semeai
> > [ajahuang]: Bonobot is better at direction
> > [ThePok]: so they have to merge
> > [ARPAnet]: What do you think, aja? How strong would
> > be a mixed "program" where Zen and bonobot suggest
> > a move in a current game situation but a human (for
> > example you) decides which one of those moves should
> > be played?
> > [ajahuang]: it depends on fast or slow game
> > [ARPAnet]: well, how about the current time setting
> > [ajahuang]: 5d up, sure
> > [ThePok]: than theres not much time to choose
> > [ajahuang]: if not 5d, at least 4d
> > [ARPAnet]: hmm, ok thanks
> > ...
> > [BOThater36]: so dont trust Aja can pick the best move :-)
> > [ajahuang]: everything could happen in fast games...anyway :)
> > ************ Chat off ****************
> > From my chess experiences I would say that Aja is rather
> > pessimistic. Between 1985 and 1997 I made several 3-Hirn
> > experiments where I was the human having the final choice
> > between candidate moves by two different chess bots.
> > My rating was around 1900, and through a wide range of
> > bot ratings (between 1500 and 2500) I was able to add
> > 200 ratings points to the strengths of the bots (in these
> > experiments the bots had very similar strengths - only my
> > human strength differed a lot).
> > If this would translate to "server go", 5d-Zen and 5d-BonoBot
> > would be lifted to something like 7d by the final choices
> > of Aja Huang[6d].
> > I am really eager to see, if this holds in reality.
> > Ingo.
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