[Computer-go] human complexity measure of games

Don Dailey dailey.don at gmail.com
Tue Oct 26 06:43:17 PDT 2010


On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 8:56 AM, Petri Pitkanen
<petri.t.pitkanen at gmail.com>wrote:

> No idea was to create amout of skill levels ina game.
> Level 0 would be total beginner
> level 1 would a player that can beat level 0 ålayer with 75 per cent
> probability with thinking times equalling chess tournament match 4 hours
> about
>
> then you could estimate skill levels from say elo max/min
>

Yes,   I think that is the right way to do it.   Larry Kaufman says go has
many more levels of skill than most games.     I think a fairly simple way
to do this is to just measure the range of ELO ratings,  going from weak
beginner to top player.    In Chess the ELO range for humans is about 2500
ELO give or take.   In checkers it is surely much lower and I would assume
in go it would be quite large.    What is the range on the servers that use
ELO?   We could compare that to chess servers.

Don




>
> if my memory serves go has about 40 levels and chess 16. Checkes was about
> 8.
>
> Petri
> ----- Alkuperäinen viesti -----
> > Is this similar to measuring how many draws for games like chess and
> > checkers?
> >
> > In checkers at the top levels, most games are draws.
> >
> > In chess, the top programs draw a lot more than they used to.     I ran a
> > match against my program Komodo and Stockfish and almost half of the
> > games were draws.
> >
> > Unfortunately the meaning and difficulty of a draw varies from game to
> > game and in some games a draw is not possible, in others a draw is much
> > less likely because of the nature of the game.
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 2:52 AM, Olivier Teytaud
> > <olivier.teytaud at lri.fr>wrote:
> >
> > > Dear all,
> > >
> > > I've been told recently that there are some works measuring how deep
> > > a game is as follows:
> > > - consider a fixed 0.5 < p < 1;
> > > - consider how many categories of people you can find such that the
> > > category number n wins with probability p against the catégory number
> > > n-1.
> > >
> > > Clearly, this is not so well defined - but it's interesting (at least
> > > to me :-) ).
> > > I've discussed with several people, some of them saying "oh yes I
> > > remember I've already
> > > seen this", but nobody could remember the reference. Any precise
> > > reference or key word I could google ?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Olivier
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Computer-go mailing list
> > > Computer-go at dvandva.org
> > > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> > >
>
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