[Computer-go] Candidates + Territory visualisation in Valkyria

Don Dailey dailey.don at gmail.com
Wed Oct 20 18:51:49 PDT 2010


On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Michael Williams <
michaelwilliams75 at gmail.com> wrote:

> The iPod Touch is an iPhone without the phone.
>
> As far as the OS, from Wikipedia:
>
>          iOS is derived from Mac OS X, with which it shares the
> Darwin foundation, and is therefore a Unix-like operating system by
> nature.
>
> You can ssh to it and do whatever (after you jailbreak it).
>

So presumably I can write an application that forks?



>
>
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Don Dailey <dailey.don at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:33 AM, Michael Williams
> > <michaelwilliams75 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> The iPhone has very impressive customer loyalty numbers (I'm on my
> >> second one).  Plus all of it's succes it despite it being AT&T-only in
> >> the US.  But you are probably right about raw computing power vs some
> >> Android devices.
> >
> > I'm not a big phone person,  I would prefer a PDA without a phone and I'm
> > more into the computing end of things, not the phone end.   So that
> biases
> > me a bit.  And the fact that Android is Linux based is pretty cool too.
> A
> > serious OS in a handheld device.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 6:18 AM, Don Dailey <dailey.don at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:44 PM, David Fotland
> >> > <fotland at smart-games.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Mobile phones have very limited memory.  On the iPhone I only have
> >> >> about
> >> >> 20 MB.  This is a big limitation for UCT programs.
> >> >
> >> > But you need much less memory when you are running 6-7 times slower.
> >> >  I
> >> > browsed around on the web and found people complaining that the
> typical
> >> > android device only leaves them with something like 150 MB free (which
> >> > is 7x
> >> > more than iphone) and that is probably not too bad given a 6x slower
> >> > search
> >> > (if that is what it is.)   That is like having close to a gigabyte
> free
> >> > on a
> >> > PC if you assume memory use is linear with speed.
> >> > Everything I've read about the iphone indicates that it is a popular
> toy
> >> > but
> >> > not very well suited to high performance computing (compared to other
> >> > small
> >> > devices.)   For example I have read that it sucks memory and gets
> worse
> >> > over
> >> > time and that it's not a real OS (to me "real" mean you can run tasks
> in
> >> > the
> >> > background) etc.     In the performance numbers for chess programs
> that
> >> > Ingo
> >> > quoted the top program was on an ipaq not an iphone.
> >> > I also saw that Android seems to be outselling iphone and probably the
> >> > majority of phones will be Android based soon.
> >> > Don
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> David
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> From: computer-go-bounces at dvandva.org
> >> >> [mailto:computer-go-bounces at dvandva.org] On Behalf Of Don Dailey
> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 9:48 AM
> >> >> To: computer-go at dvandva.org
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Candidates + Territory visualisation in
> >> >> Valkyria
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:28 PM, "Ingo Althöfer"
> >> >> <3-Hirn-Verlag at gmx.de>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> >> >> > Datum: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 11:48:57 -0400
> >> >> > Von: Don Dailey <dailey.don at gmail.com>
> >> >> > ...
> >> >>
> >> >> > If we assume 400 ELO difference that is approximately equivalent to
> >> >> > 6 or 7 doublings - does that sound about right for the mobile phone
> >> >> > hardware you are comparing?
> >> >>
> >> >> I am not a hardware expert, so I do not know.
> >> >> I took the data from the SSDF list at
> >> >> http://ssdf.bosjo.net/list.htm     There we have
> >> >> 1 Deep Rybka 3 x64 2GB Q6600 2,4 GHz    3213    +25     -23 ...
> >> >> ..
> >> >> 35 Pocket Fritz 3 Hiarcs Ipaq 214 624 MHz       2722    +53
> -51...
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm not trying to refute you or claim you did anything wrong.
> I'm
> >> >> just suggesting a refinement to get a more accurate estimate of how
> >> >> much we
> >> >> can expect to lose going to the mobile phone platform.  My refinement
> >> >> is
> >> >> more appropriate for what to expect when porting a GO program to the
> >> >> mobile
> >> >> platform.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Trying to extrapolate what I know from your data and the "rybka
> >> >> adjustment", you get this:  As a general rule of thumb,  if you port
> >> >> your go
> >> >> program to a mobile platform you will get the same performance that
> you
> >> >> would get if you played on the PC at a time control 6 or 7 times
> >> >> faster.
> >> >>  So for example if you set your program to play a game in 3 minutes
> on
> >> >> the
> >> >> Q6600 platform and other programs are playing 20 minute games, you
> >> >> should
> >> >> come relatively close to what you can expect on the mobile platform.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Don
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I think, this Hiarcs version was especially tuned for "limited"
> >> >> hardware.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> They probably took the program that was easiest and most sensible to
> >> >> port.
> >> >>   I believe Hiarcs is  32 bit program which will port to mobile phone
> >> >> hardware with the least amount of ELO loss.   A 64 bit program would
> >> >> take an
> >> >> additional hit in performance being ported to 32 bit hardware.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Ingo
> >> >>
> >> >> PS: The reason to mention go programs for mobiles was that Valkyria's
> >> >> graphic seems ideally suited for small screens.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> GRATIS! Movie-FLAT mit über 300 Videos.
> >> >> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >
> >> >
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