[Computer-go] comma bots

Don Dailey dailey.don at gmail.com
Thu Nov 18 12:37:12 PST 2010


I think I agree with you on the comma bots, allow anyone to make them.

Copying from bayeselo is tricky because if a bot has only played one or two
games it may not make sense to constantly copy over the rating.   So I
should probably change to make the copy happen only after computing the
ratings.   Bayeselo has the desirable characteristic that just 1 or 2 wins
or losses will not get ridiculously high or low ratings because it starts
with some kind of a priori assumption that all bots are equal  (I think it
does the equivalent of granting a pseudo draws to all match-ups or something
similar.)

Furthermore I think I will change the bayeselo page to only display programs
who have played at least 100 games.

The final issue is whether to copy ratings over for bots who have played
less than N games.   It makes sense to do this since these players do not
have established ratings and we really want them to get realistic ratings as
quickly as possible.     So I could do this even if the bots are not comma
bots.

Don




On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Brian Sheppard <sheppardco at aol.com> wrote:

>  Sure, let anyone create a comma bot. Users get faster testing from having
> multiple bots, and the community gets more rating stability. Everyone wins.
>
>
>
> I think that there should be a minimum number of games for copying
> Bayeselo, but I don't feel strongly about any particular number. Maybe only
> 30 games for Bayeselo to be as stable as online updating.
>
>
>
> The "last 24 hours" restriction doesn't seem to matter much. If a bot
> hasn't played since the last copying, then it has no more new data, so the
> only changes are from second-order effects.
>
>
>
> Brian
>
>
>
> *From:* computer-go-bounces at dvandva.org [mailto:
> computer-go-bounces at dvandva.org] *On Behalf Of *Don Dailey
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 18, 2010 9:44 AM
> *To:* computer-go
> *Subject:* [Computer-go] comma bots
>
>
>
> There are now several comma bots on the server.   This should have a good
> impact on bringing the ELO ratings in line with the Bayeselo page.   I'm
> currently copying over their ratings every 2 hours.
>
>
>
> So now we have a couple of questions to ask the group - primarily for those
> actually using CGOS.
>
>
>
> One possible use of comma bots is for users to have control over how their
> programs get rated.   It was my original intentions to forbid general usage
> of this mechanism,  but it occurred to me that it's possible to just open
> this up to everyone -  you create a comma bot if you want the bayeselo
> rating to be copied over (every 2 hours or so.)     This effectively gives
> your bot the most accurate rating as it's based on your exact performance
> over all the games you have ever played.    It would also have a positive
> affect on the rating pool accuracy.
>
>
>
> Another possibility is to discourage this and reserve it for clone bots
> designed to add stability to the rating system.
>
>
>
> As a separate issue it is possible to use this copy mechanism for bots who
> have played less than 100 or 200 games.    Since that is probably a huge
> number of bots over time it would be restricted to bots that have recent
> activity, perhaps within the last 24 hours.
>
>
>
> Any thoughts on either of these points?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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