[Computer-go] Fuego's new opening

valkyria at phmp.se valkyria at phmp.se
Fri Apr 30 08:40:47 PDT 2010


I have been downloading a lot of games from CGOS recently to get some  
kind of picture of how the opening moves are played for 9x9 by  
programs rated about 2200+ but it is really hard to say anything.  
After a few moves there is not enough data to make any conclusions.  
And Early on where there are data, you have the problem that the  
subtree might distort the root you are looking at because a weaker  
program always play and loses with a certain move.

With selfplay it is easier to get more data which is easier to  
interpret because all player are equally strong but then biases of the  
program will make conclusion about which moves are good really hard.

Also it seems to me that finding close to unbeatable play for 9x9 is  
really really hard (if anyone doubted that). There seems to be up to  
roughly 3-8 playable candidate moves in almost all opening positions  
in the variations I have been looking at.

Valkyria currently play quite narrow book starting with E5. Since the  
last tournament I noticed I should try to break symmetry before  
letting it think because other wise it could spend a minute on two  
moves that are symmetric. But I am considering to widen the choices  
for Black on the first move.

-Magnus (who finally was able to register with an email account which  
only put this mailing list in the spam folder rather than just delete  
it)



Quoting Martin Mueller <mmueller at ualberta.ca>:

> It is just an experiment that I am running right now. I don't know   
> which move is better. The M in the version number 1111M indicates   
> that the program is a modified version. In this case the   
> modification is that I added or changed a few moves in the book. But  
>  I am not confident in these changes so it is not in the svn. This   
> modified version will randomly choose either E5 or E4. See the diff   
> below.
>
> 	Martin
>
> diff book.dat book-3.dat
> 1504c1504
> < 9 | E5
> ---
>> 9 | E5 E4
> 1698c1698
> < 9 E5 G5 | F3 G4
> ---
>> 9 E5 G5 | F3
> 2370c2370
> < 9 F5 D5 E6 | F4
> ---
>> 9 F5 D5 E6 | E4
> 2732c2732
> < 9 D5 F5 F4 G4 E4 G3 F6 | G6
> ---
>> 9 D5 F5 F4 G4 E4 G3 F6 | G5
> 2913a2914,2919
>> 9 E5 E3 C4 C3 B3 D4 | D5
>> 9 E5 E3 C4 D4 | D5
>> 9 E5 E3 C4 D4 D5 C3 | E4
>> 9 E5 E3 C4 D4 D5 C3 E4 D3 | G4
>> 9 E4 E6 | D6
>> 9 E4 E6 D6 D7 D5 C7 | F6
>
> 	Martin
>
>> I noticed on CGOS that the latest Fuego is starting at the 5-4 point rather
>> than the 5-5 point.  I know that Fuego uses a book.  Does this mean that
>> analysis of games between strong programs shows that 5-4 is significantly
>> better than 5-5?
>
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