[Computer-go] Many Faces and Japanese rules

Don Dailey dailey.don at gmail.com
Mon Apr 26 09:29:24 PDT 2010


I wonder if it's common for both gnugo and MFGO to agree on a wrong
score?     In computer chess it's not uncommon for 2 program to want to play
the same weak move for the same (incorrect) reasons.

Don


On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 12:24 PM, David Fotland <fotland at smart-games.com>wrote:

>  This is a change of topic, since the final score is done by Many Faces’
> engine, not the MC playouts.  We were talking about MC support for Japanese
> rules in order to play well in a game that is being scored by Japanese
> rules.
>
>
>
> Final score accuracy is not perfect under either Japanese or Chinese
> rules.  Correct scoring by computer is either case is about the same
> difficulty.  MF is comparable accuracy to gnugo.  In test games, the two
> programs disagree  on the score about 1 in 200 games.
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> *From:* computer-go-bounces at dvandva.org [mailto:
> computer-go-bounces at dvandva.org] *On Behalf Of *Don Dailey
> *Sent:* Monday, April 26, 2010 6:43 AM
>
> *To:* computer-go at dvandva.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Computer-go] Many Faces and Japanese rules
>
>
>
> David,
>
> Do you have a good sense of the success rate of your scoring algorithm?
> Is it better than Gnugo for instance?  Does it get 99% of the scores correct
> or is it higher, or lower?
>
> It's my understand that correct Japanese scoring by computer is almost
> impossible to get right in every case, although one can come relatively
> close.
>
> Don
>
>
>  On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 2:00 AM, David Fotland <fotland at smart-games.com>
> wrote:
>
> It is a little tricky to make it work.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: computer-go-bounces at dvandva.org [mailto:computer-go-
>
> > bounces at dvandva.org] On Behalf Of Martin Mueller
> > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 1:52 PM
> > To: computer-go at dvandva.org
>
> > Subject: [Computer-go] Many Faces and Japanese rules
> >
> > Hi David,
> >
> > I kind of see how to do it in the tree, but can you handle Japanese
>
> > rules even in the playout phase? It seems very tricky to me. Fuego will
> > happily play extra defensive moves in its territory, as long as it is
> > beyond the search tree, since all the playouts are scored with Tromp-
> > Taylor rules and are still wins.
> >
> > See e.g.
>
> > http://fuego.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/fuego/trunk/regression/cleanup_
> > japanese_rules.tst?revision=1105&view=markup
> > http://fuego.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/fuego/trunk/regression/sgf/game
> > s/2010/LittleGolem/
> >
>
> >       Martin
> >
> > > The pure MC part of MFGO handles Japanese rules correctly.   The only
> > point
> > > I was making is that there is nothing inherent in the MC algorithm
> > that
> > > makes it not suited to Japanese rules.
>
> >
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>
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