[Computer-go] Getting started with GTP - life/death

Scott Christensen sukosuko1 at gmail.com
Fri Apr 2 20:26:55 PDT 2010

Thanks for all the info. After a bit of thought capturing rules are
very simple really, I just test every group adjacent to a new move.
Using the CGOS tromp/taylor system I don't need to worry about
life/death at the end-game.  For internal state the only other
essential would be keeping track of the 'ko rule'.    Most typical
API's have a lot of redundant check state functions which aren't
included in GTP so a bit more testing up front is needed on my part.

Thanks Petr for your excellent summary of go engine techniques:

I'm working on a 'mothering' technique where abstract understanding
and common sense approaches are built up from the 30kyu level in order
to achieve very tight tree pruning,etc... its strange that we would
not expect a human beginner to be able to learn anything from a 9-dan
game, but that's what we often expect a computer program to train
with.  Shape pattern matching is definitely a challenge.  A single
group has an almost infinite number of characteristics and it is very
difficult to train the engine to recognize similarities between
different play results in different games.  A lot of work is needed to
narrow state into a few factors such as influence, liberties, board

On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 8:00 PM,  <computer-go-request at dvandva.org> wrote:
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>   1. Re: Getting started with GTP - life/death (? ?)
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> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 12:02:58 -0400
> From: ? ? <thaoeuns at gmail.com>
> To: computer-go at dvandva.org
> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Getting started with GTP - life/death
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> And worst case you can pass off the scoring commands to gnugo.
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 06:21, Petr Baudis <pasky at ucw.cz> wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 06:09:53PM +0800, Scott Christensen wrote:
>> > I connected my GTP engine to Gogui.  Gogui will eliminate captured
>> > stones but this info is not passed to my gtp engine.  Do I need to
>> > build my own life/death analysis in the engine?
>> Yes, your engine needs to implement appropriate rules for capturing, if
>> that's what you mean. If you mean life/death of uncaptured stones during
>> scoring phase, if your engine supports final_status_list, it can be
>> queried (not on CGOS, where all stones are assumed alive at the game
>> end), but you won't receive information about the ultimate user's choice
>> (after all, the game is over).
>> > Sorry this is a very
>> > basic question, any webpage that anyone can recommend that illustrates
>> > how to go beyond GTP to actually playing out a whole game on CGOS
>> > would really be a big help.
>> http://repo.or.cz/w/pachi.git/blob/HEAD:/complete-tromptaylor.gtp is
>> example of a complete game - I believe if you can handle this, you
>> should be able to handle CGOS fine (time controls etc. are optional).
>> You may also find the script of
>> http://repo.or.cz/w/pachi.git/blob/HEAD:/sgf2gtp.pl useful for
>> debugging, to convert (simple) SGF files to GTP streams.
>> (This does not include the genmove commands that ask your engine - you
>> can just cut off the file at some point and add e.g. 'genmove b' to ask
>> the engine about its move in a particular situation.
>> --
>>                                Petr "Pasky" Baudis
>> http://pasky.or.cz/ | "Ars longa, vita brevis." -- Hippocrates
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