[computer-go] Please have your bot resign, for your own good

[Don Dailey]

I have to correct this slightly.  


Don Dailey wrote:
> Just for fun I thought of a simple protocol for ending the game earlier
> that I think would work:
>
> Each program, when it sends it's move to the server can optionally send
> 2 lists of dead stones to the server.   The first list represents the
> status of the board BEFORE the move is played and the second list
> represents the status of the stones AFTER the move is played.  
>
> If the "after" list of the one player matches the "before" list of the
> following player,   the game is ended with the last 2 moves replaced by
> pass moves.  
>   
Actually,  the last player is assumed to pass and an additional pass is
inserted for the first player.

- Don


> The lists are optional, so a program doesn't have to use this protocol
> unless it wants to.   The lists are also completely anonymous to the
> opponent to avoid any gamesmanship.     It doesn't change anything on
> the  server from the viewpoint of a program that doesn't want to use it.
>
> A program will not send this list unless it intends to pass and
> considers the game played out.    The agreed upon dead stones would be
> removed and the game scored.  
>
> - Don
>
>  
>
>
>
> Don Dailey wrote:
>   
>> David Fotland wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Japanese rules.  I know people on this list don't like them, but the game
>>> plays out almost the same as with Chinese rules, but since there is a one
>>> point penalty for playing inside your own territory, the game ends much
>>> earlier.
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>> The real issue on a server that involves computers is having a simple
>> bullet-proof protocol for ending the game and getting the correct
>> score.    CGOS method is very clean, simple and correct.  Computers
>> don't have ego's and will not fight if they get cheated.    On KGS when
>> my bot played I got situations where my program won, but the opponent
>> just marked all my programs stone as dead.   KGS didn't have a protocol
>> for contesting this.   I didn't really care since the games were not
>> rated but it was ugly nonetheless.
>>
>> I think KGS has something now involving sending a dead stone list to the
>> server, but it's not perfect.   Without a great deal of expertise and
>> getting the protocol just right,  games can get scored wrong.     In
>> fact, even with the best of intentions and well behaved strong programs
>> I think it's possible to get some games scored incorrectly with Japanese
>> rules and computer play automated.
>>
>> But for ending the game early, you have to get into this.   I don't
>> think it's a Japanese vs Chinese issue, but more about agreeing on dead
>> stones.    Although this is usually simple,  there can be complicated
>> cases that even a good program cannot score correctly.   
>>
>> If I were to take it to the next step (which I'm not inclined to do) I
>> would try to find a way to allow early passes.    I think this is
>> actually counter-productive though.    It would make it more difficult
>> to get on CGOS by raising the bar and I don't want that.
>>
>> - Don
>>
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
>>> David
>>>
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> This raises an interesting (to me) theoretical question: is there a
>>>> ruleset that allows games to end in a more reasonable time without
>>>> changing general play?  
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
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>>>
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
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>>   
>>     
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