[computer-go] 9x9 games wanted and the next big challenge

[Sylvain Gelly]

Hi Chrilly,

1) there are database of thousands of professional games for few
dollards. There are not 9x9, but (i) making database is not making
progress in the field, it is just having some temporary advantage in
tournaments. (ii) Opening is much less important in Go than in Chess,
it is why we are not so crazy about opening. At least at the current
level of programs. (iii) 19x19 Go is the real game, and you can get as
many games as you want, just clicking on three links.
2) interfaces are good enough for what we need, and tournaments as
CGOS or KGS are good tools to take the current temperature of field.
3) seriousness can't be measured as the short term money you can make
directly selling your work. I understand that you think that
researchers are paid just to play writing useless papers for themself.
But there are not more stupid than others, and maybe they think they
are doing something useful, even if it can't be measured by the direct
sell of what they produce.
4) I guess people that sell commercial programs are making money.

All that said, I agree that computer go is certainly much less mature
than computer chess.

Sylvain

> I have read dozens of times that computer-Go is the next big challenge.
> But in fact it is a completly amateuristic field where even the most basic
> things are missing. As a chess programmer I did not even think about, that
> it is a problem to get a good game collection. There are no proper
> interfaces, no serious tournaments, a wired data standard...
> AND there is no money involved:  For professional programming I get 60Euro/h
> (1Euro=1.35$).
> 2.000h x 60 = 120.000 Euro.
> This equation is of course completly wrong. One can not make in 2000h a very
> strong Go programm and one can not earn 120.000 Euro with it.
> A more realistic equation is;
> 20.000 Euro/5000h = 4Euro/h.
>
> The minimum wage (by law) is in Austria 6Euro/h. Obviously Go programming is
> even more unqualified than washing dishes in a restaurant.
>
> If it would be really a big challenge, there would be some money. In chess
> nowadays there is also no money. But once it was a good business and there
> was some considerable money for Deep Blue and on a smaller scale also for
> Hydra, there was Don's project at MIT, one got a big Cray for Cray-Blitz,
> Ken Thompson build a chess engine....
> Its like some hobbyst engineers and hobby-pilots would try to fly to the
> moon.
> Its probably only good for to write some academic papers. In this case its
> even an advantage that everything is so amateuristic. The general level is
> low and one can be the one-eyed king under blind ones.
>
> Its clear to me that things are as they are in the West. Go is played only
> by a small freak community. But if it is so important in China/Korea/Japan
> why is'nt there something like Fritz and ChessBase? Or does it exist and we
> are living in a completly other Go-world?
>
> Chrilly
>
> P.S.: I do not want to offend anyone in this list. Everybody here does his
> best. I am just feed up with the things as they are.
>
>
>
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