[computer-go] an idea... computer go program's rank vs time

[Don Dailey]

I see what you are saying.   Yes, I agree with you that the
strength of these programs will decrease exponentially as
board sizes increase.  

By the way,  I haven't been offended by any of these messages
and I hope I haven't offended anyone either.   This is a very
interesting conversation to me and I welcome your thoughts and
even if I sound too strong I mean no disrespect to anyone.

- Don


On Fri, 2007-01-26 at 19:05 +0000, ivan dubois wrote:
> You missunderstood my point. However, I admit it was not clear. What i wanted to say is this : 
> Given a fixed amount of time, strength of monte-carlo algorithm will decrease exponentialy when boardsize increases.
> It does not mean that monte-carlo does not scale well with time on 19*19.
> Of course, it all depends on the referential you use to measure strength. By the way, it is not a critisism towards UCT : actualy I do think monte-carlo is the key to build realy strong programs.
> I just wanted to state that scaling with computation-time is not the only thing that matters. Scaling with board size matters too.
> It was not another criticism towards you opinion either.
> 
> ----- Message d'origine ----
> De : Don Dailey <drd at mit.edu>
> À : computer-go <computer-go at computer-go.org>
> Envoyé le : Vendredi, 26 Janvier 2007, 19h05mn 40s
> Objet : Re: Re : [computer-go] an idea... computer go program's rank vs time
> 
> 
> On Fri, 2007-01-26 at 13:38 +0000, ivan dubois wrote:
> > However, if you take for example a computer programm that does
> > straight UCT (global UCT, with no sub-areas), then i believe it can
> > not scale well when board size increases. Because the branching would
> > factor increase proportinaly to the size of the board, and therefore
> > the computation time for an equivalent search deapth will increase
> > exponentialy.
> > Any thoughts ? 
> 
> This can be tested directly.   In my own experiments 19x19 improves very
> rapidly in UCT with each doubling of the number of play-outs.  
> 
> Of course someone will say, "yes, but that won't continue" and I will
> have no way to refute their intuition.    
> 
> I am presenting real evidence that it scales at least as far as I 
> can test,  and nobody has presented any evidence whatsoever to the
> contrary other than gut feelings.
> 
> - Don
> 
> 
> 
> 
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