[computer-go] .. if Monte-Carlo programs would play infinite strong

[Don Dailey]

Richard,

The key word is not "infinite", it's the word "if"

The statement was "IF we had an infinite computer ...."
   
It doesn't matter one bit whether such a device is possible - it's a
perfectly valid "thought device" for thought experiments.    It's easy
to imagine what we would do with such a computer and how it could be
used without stretching our brains too far.

We can also imagine the moon being made of green cheese without this
actually being the case.   I don't see any problem with considering the
behavior of a machine with certain characteristics just because we can't
produce one.

We cannot even be sure such a thing is impossible.  It might not be
constructed they way you assume it has to be to be called a computer.
And just because we cannot imagine how such a machine could possible
exist doesn't mean it cannot.   It defies the laws of the universe as we
know them assuming any kind of construction that we know about - but
that in itself might mean that we currently lack the imagination to
build such a device.

Another problem is that we are a subset of our universe.   We don't know
much about the universe and we are constrained by it.   It's entirely
possible that such a computer could exist OUTSIDE our universe.   It
couldn't be explained or understood by us and probably could not operate
as a physical device in our universe.   The incompleteness theorem might
explain why such a device might not be understood in our universe.   But
just saying it cannot exist is a pretty limited way of thinking about it
and doesn't disqualify our ability to reason about it.

- Don



On Fri, 2006-11-24 at 08:42 -0600, Richard Brown wrote:
> aquarius at fantasymail.de
> 
> > Eeh, am I missing some point here or would not any Go program that uses search and infinite computer power "simply" SOLVE the game - given that scoring is done right and infinite loops are ruled out?
> 
> This is a common misconception.  The problem lies in that pesky word, "infinite".
> 
> Two inescapable facts prevent such a computer from ever existing:
> 
> 	-  There are a finite number of atomic particles in the universe.
> 
> 	-  The age of the universe is a finite length of time.
> 
> These facts mean that, even _if_ one were able to use each and every atomic particle as
> a bit in one huge universe-sized computer, there would _never_ be sufficient room
> to store the results of such a search, even _if_ one had infinite time!
> 
> And conversely, even _if_ there were an _infinite_ number of atomic particles in
> the universe, permitting sufficient room to store the results, the calculation of
> those results would take longer than the age of the universe, which is finite.
> 
> > If we had infinite computing power Go would resemble tic tac toe from a programmer's perspective. period.
> 
> You seem mighty certain about that.
> 
> If the moon were made of green cheese, I am the pope.  Period.
> 
> Hmmm, I guess you are right after all.
>